S1E8: Purgatory (Catholic or Protestant: What's the Difference?)

For Episodes 2-10 we'll be diving into the 9 key differences between Catholicism and Protestantism in a series called Catholic or Protestant: What's the Difference?

In today's episode we'll be talking about the necessity of Purgatory, the effects of sin and "moral twisting" from sin as well as Scriptural evidence for Purgatory, what is the nature of Purgatory, and how we can help our brothers and sisters in the Church Suffering.

Bible Passages Quoted:
-Revelation 21:27
-2 Corinthians 4:17
-Matthew 5:48
-Romans 8:28
-2 Maccabees 12:38-46
-Matthew 12:32

Resources:
What is Purgatory? | Catholic Answers
Answering Protestant Objections to Purgatory | Shameless Popery
What the Early Church Believed: Purgatory | Catholic Answers
What You Should Know About Purgatory | Fr. Mike Schmitz
What is Purgatory? | Fr. Mike Schmitz
Is Purgatory in the Bible? | Catholic Answers Video
First Friday and First Saturday Devotions | The Divine Mercy

Have a question about the Faith you’d like to have answered on the Podcast? Submit it here: https://forms.gle/zorQwuUGtSdukzjc6

Transcript

 Hi, friends. Welcome back to another episode of Catholicism 101, Forever Learning and Living the Faith. Today's episode topic is purgatory. Now, when we talk about purgatory, we're going to talk a little bit about heaven and hell. We're going to talk about the effects of sin. We're going to talk also about what is some scriptural evidence for purgatory. 

And then, after we've talked about that, we're going to talk about what is purgatory, so like, what's the nature of purgatory. And then, lastly, we're going to talk about how we can help those in purgatory. How the mystical body of Christ to the church in all her states can help those in purgatory.  Now let's get right into it. 

So heaven and hell. Heaven, we know, is the place where a soul is encountering, not just encountering, but really fully partaking in the beatific vision, which it's that experience where you have full knowledge of God and then also a love that flows from that knowledge. Now, in order to have the beatific vision, to have this full knowledge of God, you have to be in the correct disposition.

And that disposition is one of charity and you are just filled to the brim with sanctifying grace. And we know this because of Revelations chapter 21 verse 27, you know, this isn't the only evidence, but this is one of the big ones, where it says, nothing unclean will enter it. And so something really cool about sanctifying grace and the way we understand it I feel like there needs to be kind of like a perspective shift.

And. Common belief on like, what is sanctifying grace? So sanctifying grace is the actual ability to exist in heaven.  Now, C. S. Lewis offers this really beautiful, concrete, and just artistic interpretation as to what that looks like, what that means, in a way that we can really understand in his book called The Great Divorce. 

10 out of 10 recommend that book. The premise of it is there's this guy who's on a bus ride from hell to heaven and he's with all of these other people who have gone to hell and they don't really, like, Admit that they've gone to hell, you know, they're they're happy with how they are. Whatever. That's a whole different thing, but he's on this bus ride and people can get on the bus and they can visit heaven and It's up to them if they decide to stay or not And so obviously we'd be like, well, of course they'd stay why wouldn't they  and the thing is they get there And they're like ghosts.

They're like transparent and they're very weak compared to the souls in heaven and like the angels and everything. And they're, it's, I'll read you a quote from chapter four. It says, Walking proved difficult. The grass, hard as diamonds to my unsubstantial feet, made me feel as if I were walking on wrinkled rock, and I suffered pains like those of the mermaid in Hans Anderson.

Transcribed  Around this point in the book, it talks about how the souls in heaven are substantial. They're not transparent. They're substantial and they have no problem walking around. They have no problem, like, picking a leaf off a tree or anything simple like that. But these souls that have come up on the bus from hell,  are like in utter torment.

It's like the, the grass is piercing their feet and they can't even stand. They're like, they, they just can't. And so it's a really beautiful analogy. I highly recommend the book. Again, C. S. Lewis, The Great Divorce, but it, again, it offers a really beautiful, substantial analogy  for the fact that sanctifying grace is the ability to live in heaven. 

Now, hell, on the other hand,  hell is a permanent place of punishment for those who reject God, in which the beatific vision is definitively lost and eternal retribution is inflicted for those sins that went without repentance, chiefly the sin of rejection of God.  Now, we, we must admit that there are people who adamantly do reject God,  but there are There are many faithful who strive to follow the Lord's loving commands but often fall short. 

Most people don't die in perfect charity and in sanctifying grace that is required to enter into heaven  and therefore they're not ready to receive the gift of the beatific vision.  So there must be some sort of pit stop for those who die in God's friendship,  but they need to be purified of the effects of sin before entering that beatific vision. 

I like to think of this analogy. I know a lot of people use it, but it's imagine there's this pure white  room, just pure white sparkling room,  and you've been outside walking in the mud. Maybe you're covered in mud, maybe you just got some mud on your feet, maybe it's just a little bit whatever it is, you've got some mud on you,  and you're invited into this house, and you're like,  And you go to walk in and you're like, Oh shoot,  I need to take off my shoes or I need a shower or like I've got some dirt on my hands.

I don't want to sit on the couch and like ruin their white couch and pillows.  You need to like wash up or like, you know, maybe you need a full on shower. Maybe you just need to take off your shoes, whatever it may be. Some sort of change, some sort of purification has to happen before you enter that white room.

Now,  when you try to walk in this white room.  And you've got some mud on your shoes or some dirt on your hands or whatever. Maybe you're absolutely covered in mud. I don't know. Whatever it is.  The owner of their house is not going to let you into that white room. Okay, if you're covered in mud. And honestly, if you're on your right mind, you're not going to want to walk into that white room if you're covered in mud.

You don't want to  tarnish what is pure.  Now, this analogy. Essentially,  you will not enter the white room until the mud is gone and you are clean. Of any sign of mud or dirt or whatever it may be you will not enter their room  now  a little bit of mud On your white clothes  or like maybe you're sopping wet and you just need like a good hose down whatever it may be  That that's maybe not enough  To like damn you for all eternity.

Okay, the lord is merciful and that Is why we have purgatory  again before we get into the nature of purgatory You Let's talk about what is this mud? What is this dirt? What are the effects of sin? So there are three principal effects of sin. And the first one is guilt. Blameworthiness, guilt. The second one is a stain.

Which is essentially that loss of sanctifying grace. And the third one is punishment. Punishment due.  Now, when we are baptized, we receive the full application of Christ's passion to all three effects of sin, we're wiped completely clean with a fresh, white, sparkling soul.  And as I said, after baptism, we still sin.

Now, when you go to confession, when Catholics, when we go to confession, our guilt is wiped away. We are absolved of the sin and our sanctifying grace is restored. So it deals with the first two.  Now, what it doesn't fully deal with is punishment.  At the end of confession, you're given a penance to go and like put good out into the world, you know, try to make up for the bad that you've done by doing good.

That's a penance and that deals partially with With the punishment due here, sins, but not completely.  So that punishment that's due is among the chief reasons for the need of purgatory.  Also, in addition to these, these three effects of sin, there's also like a remains of sin. It's, it's this kind of moral twisting that happens within us whenever we commit a sin.

And this twisting needs to be  untwisted. The, the word for it is concupiscence. You know, we have an inclination to sin. And the more we sin, the more we are inclined to do so.  So we, we, we want to untwist that. We want that to be untwisted.  So purgatory not only deals with the punishment left over,  but it also deals with this moral untwisting and purification from those remains of sin. 

Now,  why?  Because when you're in heaven, like I said, you have full knowledge of God and a love which flows from that. You are so absorbed in God and his true perfect goodness that there's just no possibility for you to do anything except for love him and love that which is ordered to him. And just like everything else in life, there is no magic switch that just makes this happen. 

Just like the path of glory that Christ walked, we also have to walk the way of suffering in the cross.  It says in 2nd Corinthians, chapter 4, verse 17, St. Paul, he says, For this momentary light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison. It's no secret that God wants us to be perfect.

I mean, Jesus literally says, be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect.  And the thing is  He gave us this beautiful gift of free will,  so that we are not forced to love him, but that we get to choose to love him. It is our choice. He leaves it up to us, so that we can actually love him authentically,  rather than be forced into it. 

The flip side of that is also we can choose to not love him, and as fallen human beings,  we often do choose to not love him. Our wills were weakened in the fall. And sanctifying grace not only is the ability to live in heaven, because it divinizes us but it also strengthens our will.  So, Christ showed us what we had to do  in order  to be given that sanctifying grace, in order to become perfect,  as he not only commands us, but really honestly desires for us.

He wants it more than anything else, is he wants us to be in heaven with him.  And since he knows that so many of us fall short all the time because of our weakened wills,  We try, but we fall short all the time. He gives us this great, great mercy, this great gift of purgatory that if we die in sin  and we need to be purified, if we've got dirt on our hands or whatever, he offers us this post mortem purification so that we may fully embrace him and be with him  in the Trinitarian exchange. 

Huh? All that to say our fallen human nature.  is really hard,  really hard for us to battle against. I, I think of the John Dunn poem, batter my heart, three person in God. We're asking God for the grace and asking God to just  help us overcome that, help us overcome our fallen humanity. And in order to do that, it's painful because it's part of us.

Our fallen humanity is part of us.  You're essentially separating part of ourself from ourself.  So it's painful. And Jesus showed us exactly that. When he died on the cross.  There is a popular Catholic saying also that in order to pray the glorious mysteries, you have to go through the sorrowful mysteries.

And that is true for every single one of our lives.  But the thing is, again, Romans 8, 28, he is working all things for good for those who love the Lord.  Second Corinthians 4, 17, again, for this momentary light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory. Beyond all comparison.  Now let's talk about some scriptural evidence for purgatory, you know?

Okay. Yeah, it makes sense that it needs to be there, but what does scripture have to say about it?  And there's this passage from second Maccabees chapter 12, and these guys are fighting in a war and  I'm, I'm going to just read it to you. Okay. It's second Maccabees chapter 12, verses 38 through 46.  Judas rallied his army and went to the city of Adulam. 

As the seventh day was approaching, they purified themselves according to custom and kept the Sabbath there.  On the following day, since the task had now become urgent, Judas and his companions went to gather up the bodies of the fallen and bury them with their kindred in their ancestral tombs.  But under the tunic of each of the dead, they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia.

Which the law forbids the Jews to wear  so it was clear to all that this was why these men had fallen  They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden  Turning to supplication they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out  The noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves free from sin For they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen  He then took up a collection among all his soldiers Amounting to 2, 000 silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice.

In doing this, he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection in mind.  For if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead.  But, if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness,  It was a holy and pious thought. 

Thus, he made atonement for the dead that they might be absolved from their sin.  Why would we pray for people who are in hell?  I mean, really.  There's no changing where they're at.  Our prayers do them no good.  Why would we pray for people who are already in heaven?  There's no, they're already in heaven. They don't need our prayers.

We need them to pray for us.  Why would we pray for people in purgatory?  Because they're on their way to heaven.  Because they need to be filled with sanctifying grace, they need to be purified,  they need our help.  Why would scripture include us praying for the dead  if a place where people need prayers after they've died does not exist? 

Food for thought.  Also, Matthew chapter 12, verse 32,  Jesus says,  And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. Amen. 

So Jesus even says that purification from sin can be dealt with after this life, in the age to come.  Good food for thought from our scripture passages.  Let's talk about what really is purgatory, what's the nature of purgatory. Now, purgatory is a temporary delay,  a temporary delay of the beatific vision. 

And there is a suffering in this, because these souls have lost immediate access to God.  That's the chief suffering of purgatory is the delay of the beatific vision. They know it's coming, but they don't have it yet. And they had the opportunity to have it immediately if they had died in, you know, perfect sanctifying grace, but they didn't.

So now there's a delay and that's a pain. That is the biggest pain.  There is also a pain that comes along with a purification process that is proportioned to the degree that an individual has turned away from God.  So in other words, it's due punishment left over from sin, as well as any other moral untwisting that needs to take place. 

And as I have said so many times already, this is a great, great mercy of the Lord. If our only two options were to either die perfect or be damned, I think most of us would be in quite the unfortunate pickle.  Like I said, the Lord knows  that most of us will really struggle to choose Him. In every circumstance, every day of our lives,  like I said earlier, he still loves us.

He doesn't want our struggles with our fallen nature to stop us from being with him.  And so he gives us that post death gift of purification and purgatory.  Now this is how the mystical body of Christ to the church in all of her states can help those in purgatory.  The church suffering is those in purgatory.

So they're really just kind of in this passive state where they can only be purified and prepared. To enter into the beatific vision.  Now us, the church militant, the church on earth,  we have like a double role in this, it's kind of cool. We can both intercede for and satisfy the punishments due of those in purgatory in their place. 

Remember that communal bank of grace I talked about, it would have been in the episode of, on the saints  that like we can deposit into this communal bank of grace and do penance for those who are in purgatory so that their suffering is lessened. Really cool. Really beautiful. And it also is like meritorious for you as well.

You get a lot of grace from that as well. It's, it's kind of a two birds with one stone thing. It's really cool.  Now the church triumphant, the church in heaven,  their role is to powerfully intercede for the church on earth. That is doing the grit work and fighting the battle. Okay. We're like the church militant.

We're called the church militant for a reason. We're the boots on the ground. Okay. We are interceding for and satisfying the punishments due of those in purgatory. And the church triumphant is like,  they're like, they're filling us with jet fuel is the only thing I can think of, you know, they're, they're the power behind the church militant. 

And there is just this great need for us to pray for those in purgatory. Okay. And honestly, recommit to the practices of fasting and penance, both for ourselves and for our brothers and sisters in Christ that are in the church suffering, suffering in purgatory.  And I want to offer a suggestion of two ways that are really great to do this.

And those are the devotional practices of First Fridays. which are devoted to the Sacred Heart, first Fridays of the month, and then the first Saturdays of the month, which are devoted to the Immaculate Heart. And I've got some more information on this if you're curious about those or want to learn more.

I've got, it's the last resource link, and it's from a website called The Divine Mercy that talks about devotions. They're really cool, they're really beautiful, and we really should use them. Because they're, again, they're a beautiful gift, they're a beautiful opportunity for an outpouring of grace, not only upon ourselves, but upon the conversion of sinners and the souls in purgatory. 

But yeah, that's all I've got for you. That's gonna be it for me today. And I, as always, I hope you have learned something new and maybe if your brain wasn't tickled then maybe hopefully your soul was ignited with a new appreciation for the love the Lord has for you. Especially in this very misunderstood mercy that he offers us and has for us.

So, as always, I have some more resources linked in the show notes for you if your brain was tickled and your interest was piqued. And if you have a question that maybe wasn't answered today or those resources don't really satisfy for you, you can drop it in the question box that's always in the show notes. 

But again, that's it for me today. I hope you all, as always, have a blessed day.